Building a Business That Includes You with Faith Clarke

When we talk about building businesses that work for us, what does that actually mean in practice?

This week on Here’s What I Learned, I’m joined by Faith Clarke—organizational culture strategist and co-creator of Feminist Founders—for a deep, energizing conversation about values-led business, strategic collaboration, and how we unlearn the reflex to fix everything... especially when it’s uncomfortable.

Faith shares what she’s actively practicing right now: noticing the pull to fix when discomfort arises, and instead pausing to ask, what does my body need right now? That question alone cracked open so much for me—and I think it will for you too.

We also get into what it really looks like to build a business your way—including letting go of morning meetings, resisting hustle culture, and treating collaboration as co-creation... not another to-do list.

This one is full of grounded wisdom, gentle challenges, and the kind of strategic insight that makes you rethink how you lead, spend, and show up.

Topics:

• The hidden cost of using your strategic brain to avoid discomfort
• What it looks like to design your business around your actual life
• How Faith reframes collaboration as “holding the other corner of the sheet”
• What equity and liberation can look like inside your business (without the overwhelm)
• The weight of invisible labor—and what we can do about it, together

Whether you’re reimagining your business systems, craving more aligned partnerships, or just tired of putting yourself last… this episode is your invitation to do it differently.

You can find Faith at:

Website: faithclarke.com

Substack: faithwithlife

Mentioned in the episode:

• Feminist Founders on Substack

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Credits:

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Transcript

@2:34 - Jacki Hayes (Jacki Hayes)

Welcome to another episode of Here's What I Learned. Today, I have Faith Clarke with me. Faith is an organizational culture and teamwork specialist committed to helping business leaders cultivate a values-infused, inclusive culture where people feel like they belong so that they can deliver on their business and the social impact promises.

Faith, welcome to the show.

@2:57 - Faith Clarke (Faith Clarke)

Jacki, thank you so much for having me.

@3:00 - Jacki Hayes (Jacki Hayes)

Faith, what is something that you have been learning about lately?

@3:04 - Faith Clarke (Faith Clarke)

That's such a gorgeous question. I've been noodling on it. Oh, I'm learning this, I'm learning that. But I think the one that I was thinking about today, and it might seem a little off the rails, but I'm learning how to not use my adaptable strategic brain when I'm stressed.

So when I have an emotional response to something, and it could be stuff to do with my kids, or it could be something, just whatever it is, because I am so adaptable, and because I can come up with three or 15 options to fix a thing, I can lean straight in, just like, let's fix this.

I want to relieve the discomfort. People may not even be asking me to fix anything, especially with my kids who are adults.

They're just having those that I feel are unnecessary of their choosing, and I come up with it. But it's...

It's really about me relieving my own discomfort. So what I'm learning is to listen to my body and ask her, what are you needing?

And so a mentor of mine, you know, her phrase is, heal, support the animal body first. So I'm like, what is actually happening right now?

Oh, this is one of those moments where I am like, I can't manage the discomfort. This is not the time for your lovely, adaptable, strategic brain.

This is the time for, where's your spine? Is it stacked up right or is it kind of slouched over?

What's happening with your breathing? Did you drink water today? You probably didn't. Do you need to go stretch? And just to notice when I'm kind of leaning into reduced discomfort by fixing and to pull back, it's such a, it sounds simple, but it's so, I can be caught halfway down the road and I'm like, wait, this is one of those times when I need to.

It needs a walk. I'm going for a walk. It needs a walk. She needs a walk. So that's what I'm practicing now.

@5:08 - Jacki Hayes (Jacki Hayes)

Faith, that is such a good reminder to me because I am the same with that strategic brain. I've already figured out 500 solutions to this.

I might as well just get going on it. And to have lived that way for most of my life, to remember the disconnect with my body, I really do have to.

Some people are like, oh, yeah, my brain, you know, but my heart is this and my brain, my back needs this.

And I'm like, wait a minute. I don't even know if I can feel. Where's my back?

@5:36 - Faith Clarke (Faith Clarke)

The first time, I'm better at it now, but the first time a colleague of mine said to me, we were at that time, my business was autism and we're training caregivers.

So it's a very embodied experience. And she'd say proprioception is, you know, the location of your body in space.

And so faith, you know, for example, where's your right knee? And I'd be like, right knee, where is even right?

And it was like, I am so not. And it took a lot of, like, can I build that awareness?

And part of the reason I wear jewelry is I give myself reminders of where my body is. Sometimes if I'm doing presentations, I might wear heavy earrings and heavy bracelets.

And it's part of this is you staying in space right now.

@6:22 - Jacki Hayes (Jacki Hayes)

That's brilliant. I love that idea with using the jewelry as a reminder. I was a gymnast, so proprioception is, like, when I'm in movement is great.

But as far as, like, feeling individual parts of my body when I'm just sitting, I'm like, wait a minute.

Like, how do you feel your hand? I don't, like, I can feel my hand when I touch my hand.

But from the inside, what? That's just strange. So I love, thank you for the reminder that that is something that I need to continue to work on and the idea of using the jewelry.

The other question I always ask my guests is, what does it mean to do business your way, when you think about that?

Yeah, I think that so many of us...

@7:00 - Faith Clarke (Faith Clarke)

I have been taught business in whoever's way, who came up with the curriculum, wherever they did that. And so it's been a journey.

Doing business my way starts with me even knowing myself and me honoring myself. I have a little image, maybe I'll share it in the show notes, but a drawing that my son did for me called Faith Includes Herself.

Because as an advocate for inclusion and belonging, it was always for them. And I had to recognize that I could not advocate for with any honesty and integrity things that I was not living out.

So doing business my way starts with me including myself, me belonging to myself, me honoring the way that I am now.

Not the way that the fixed me will be, not the way that I will grow into, but just me right now.

So I don't have meetings before 10 o'clock because my body doesn't like that. And I do prefer deep dives to kind of quick triages.

So I don't do those, even though, yeah, I hear that they could be really effective. And part of doing business my way is knowing how to ignore other people's ways and wearing my own clothes and using my own, I don't know, tools.

@8:26 - Jacki Hayes (Jacki Hayes)

I have noticed in the three plus years that I've been in business for myself is that it has been a wonderful tool in learning about myself, where my strengths are, what I enjoy doing.

Like you, I'm a deep dive person. I don't like staying on the surface, which I knew from the beginning, based on all the personality things that just screamed at me that you don't like that.

I'm like, yeah, I know.

@8:52 - Faith Clarke (Faith Clarke)

This is why I don't do, you know, like the small talk. I want to immediately with a stranger ask their life story.

Yes.

@9:00 - Jacki Hayes (Jacki Hayes)

That kind of thing. So I think it's really important for people to understand that their business is going to evolve as they learn more about themselves, and then they're evolving.

So it's just this constant thing. But they always talk about that ideal day scenario that you're supposed to be envisioning when you build your business.

And I think so often I do that. I'm like, but that's not the reality of my day. Like, there is never going to be a day in my life where I'm going to hit ideal day.

Yes, I'm not going to do any meetings before 10 like you, because my brain needs some time to wake up.

But I also need to build a business that reflects what my life is right now. Because if I do the ideal day, I'm going to probably end up overcompensating or overcapacity or something.

@9:48 - Faith Clarke (Faith Clarke)

Yeah, I think sometimes I go back and forth between those two ideas. Because I think what kids have taught me this, I can adapt to anything that I need to.

And I'm realizing that I adapt for others and not necessarily for myself. So I'm often asking myself, what's the adaptation that my soul is craving?

And it could be an adaptation that's in that ideal day, say three days a week for work, finishing by three o'clock or whatever the time is.

And my logical brain says, we can't afford that. You need to talk to people when they're, you know, and all the things.

But there's something about noticing that if my kids had said, we need you for these other three days, I would just, and I'd still make the same money.

And so I do think that there are elements of our ideal days that we think are nice to have and we will get when.

And yeah, I'm challenging myself actively right now, specifically in the area of how I spend money. Because I'm constantly saying, when I have.

I don't have a manifestation kind of jargon, but if I'm to be honest, I manifest money for my kids all the time because they show up with needs that I do not know.

I have no idea. And they're just like, what, you need an appliance for what? We have TMD now? And we figure it out.

And I'm like, can I look at my ideal, the thing I'm craving? And make that urgent. Just make it urgent.

Just decide, right? And so part of how I've been making things urgent is just pay for them because I realized that I am still going to eat food and I'm still going to pay for my housing.

And it'll be easier for me to manifest that than to manifest the things that are in my picture of the life I want to live.

So, but I think kids have taught me that I, it's just that I haven't made it. It's not urgent as far as I'm concerned.

@12:03 - Jacki Hayes (Jacki Hayes)

Yeah, kids in business, great tools and learning about yourself. And I recognize that I could always find money for my son for things and then I put off the things that I needed for myself.

And I think a lot of the business owners I work with, I have seen they do put their clients first, their families first, and they'll tell me their ideal days because I'm there to help them make systems work for them so they can have more of that ideal day.

And a lot of times it's really just about them getting in their own way. Like there's no reason why they need to have calls on Mondays or there's no reason why they have to respond to emails as soon as they wake up in the morning.

They've already, most of them have communicated with their clients that their office hours don't start until 10 and yet they're still answering emails at 8.

So teaching them to break the habit, it's more about them caring for themselves and creating that business for themselves than it is about pleasing their clients.

@13:00 - Faith Clarke (Faith Clarke)

Absolutely. The question you asked me at the beginning and the practice of saying yes to my body, body, what those needs are, I've noticed that it's about rigorous practice for everything that we have to change.

It's about, I guess, the kind of practice you had to do as a gymnast. I'm sure you were not doing two whatever crunches or whatever per day.

I think there are many of us who are like, yeah, I want to be that way, but I need to be willing to practice a thousand times a day changing my mind.

Oh, I'm now back in my old brain. Change my mind. Okay, I'm back again. Change my mind. Because otherwise we don't become those people who put ourselves first, include ourselves, and center our businesses around who we are and the magic we want to bring to the world.

@13:51 - Jacki Hayes (Jacki Hayes)

Faith, when I think of you, and I discovered you through Becky Molenkamp and Feminist Founders, one of the things that

I think about when I think about you and your magic and doing business is collaboration because of, you know, learning about you first through your collaboration with Feminist Founders.

Can you tell me a little bit about Feminist Founders first or or why collaboration has become part of your business?

And then we can talk a little bit more about Feminist Founders. So this is back to this, what you were saying earlier, just knowing yourself, right?

@14:26 - Faith Clarke (Faith Clarke)

My 2025 word for the year, by the way, is with. And with was just a way for me to acknowledge what's really true for me, which is that I do with and for.

For the Enneagram junkies around the place, I'm an Enneagram too. And just like, it's, it's, that's the thing that pulls me to create the person, the other person.

And of course, everything has this dark side, but you have to know about yourself and use what you know.

To help yourself get where you want to go. And so for me. And collaborations are the way that I create what I want.

I find other people who want what I want, and then I know I will create for them. And in creating for them, I'm making space for myself.

And I think back to kids. Kids taught me that, that in creating a life that I wanted for my kids, it was the life I wanted for myself that I wouldn't have created just for me alone.

And so this year, when I was working on the Word for the Year with, I wrote down that I wanted nourishing connections and lucrative collaborations.

And the lucrative collaborations, you can't really tell if something's going to be lucrative or not. So I decided that I was going to center the nourishing connections and trust that the collaborations become lucrative.

We're going to follow our bliss. We're going to follow our joy. I'm going to say that's what Becky and I did, that we met on her podcast.

Somebody referred her to me to be on her podcast, and we enjoyed each other's. We had a couple of those conversations and I offered.

I was just like, what is this space? It feels like a space that so much could happen in and is happening in.

And I just wanted to engage. I didn't have clear ideas, but I was just like, do you want another body?

Because for me as a person who does things with, sometimes you just need, a friend of mine says it this way, you just need somebody else holding another side of the sheet.

I'm trying to make this bed and I'm holding this corner of the sheet. I just need another person. And together it happens like that.

And so I tend to view most of my collaborations that way. And that's how Becky and I started working on Feminist Founders.

Feminist Founders is a space right now, mostly on Substack, but we meet in person, virtually in person. We meet in synchronous time a couple of times per month.

But we have a podcast, a group of women who... I really want to answer the question, how do we infuse our feminist ideals into our business?

How do we move feminist ideals from theories in our minds and make what's underneath, which is creating a world of equity and justice?

How do we do that through the various intersections that we all hold? Because they're feminist ideals, but then I'm a Black Afro-Caribbean woman, and those intersections impact what feminism looks like for me.

And therefore, it impacts how I infuse those values in my business. And I think lots of us need both permission and community to give us the courage to do that intentionally in every aspect of our business.

And so what does equity look like for you? I have a client who's working on what does liberation look like for her?

And then therefore, what does liberation look like for her team? And therefore, what does liberation look like for her work with her clients?

And how does she negotiate with her big partners? Governmental agencies in ways that feels liberated to her. And, you know, and so it's a space where we get to hold each other while we ask those questions relative to our own business.

@18:19 - Jacki Hayes (Jacki Hayes)

What would you say if somebody wants to start asking those questions of themselves? It can be very overwhelming because, like you said, you have a client right now who's like thinking about liberation for herself.

But then if you're that kind of person, then you're you are going to be like, well, wait a minute.

@18:32 - Faith Clarke (Faith Clarke)

I have all these people that are supporting me on my team. I need to ask that. Oh, wait, I have clients.

It becomes exponentially expanding. Yeah, exactly.

@18:40 - Jacki Hayes (Jacki Hayes)

And good luck to her with governmental agencies, especially right now. But when somebody starts to think about I want to start asking these questions, there's so many questions.

And then there's this expanding, you know, world of questions that come from that for everybody else. How do. You help your clients not get overwhelmed by that.

@19:03 - Faith Clarke (Faith Clarke)

I think you need a person to kind of help you say, no, not there, here, no, not there. It's like a fitness journey, right?

I'm trying to get stronger, but I need to just be focused on one or two core areas and build stamina to increase.

And so when I'm, it's capacity building, that's the umbrella that I tend to work under when organizations are interested.

And it starts with the leader. And it's often, I am just, for any client, it's you. Forget about everyone else.

This business is already functioning. So let's just leave it to function. But for you, what do you want? Because before we even get to what are your feminist ideals, it's what do you want?

We can map most of what people want to some kind of ideal, some kind of theory. But lots of us, especially people identifying as women, we have been taught.

talk a Perfect. to not know what we want and to give that up for the sake of service and our other things.

So it's starting with what you want, being willing and having the courage and having a safe place to note that and decide on one place that you are going to create more of what you want in your business.

From there, then it's like, how does that thing that you want to create more equity and justice for you?

Because we can go into feminism means blah, blah, blah, but fundamentally, it's let's level the playing field so that all types of people, all identities of people are able to navigate, overcome barriers and participate and create more of what they want in their lives.

But it has to start with you. I mean, I think for my clients who are, who have more privileged identities, who are thinking about people on their team who have, you know, multiply marginalized identities, then the question, the next question is what?

What do those people want? What's one thing that they want that they're not having? The organization is the place for that to happen.

So I do think things like vacation, there's lots of pet issues in organizations, how much time people get off.

I had a recent conversation with a colleague about grief and bereavement. There are lots of places where we don't have to do a super deep dive, but you can just answer questions, questions like who's family?

So many people don't have traditional families, what those are. And so when they say, oh, I can get bereavement or I can get when a family member dies, who's family?

And I think just being willing to ask the people on your team, what needs to be addressed? What's one thing that would help you feel more safe, like there's more justice?

And then begin the process of, well, how would we do that together? Not you, the expert. Many of my colleagues who are white will fall prey to the perfectionism that seems to come with that.

And so they will be like, okay, I have to have all the answers. have to have it right. I have to figure it out.

I have to make it work for the whole team. And I'm like, no, no, no. Let's co-create the solution.

Your team knows what they want. Together you can find a solution to bring more, to answer those questions. So I tend to say, let's start there.

But I can help. And part of what I tend to do over a year or so is just kind of help everybody focus on their one thing.

Because if you find the low-hanging fruit, it'll scaffold. And you won't have to be, you won't experience that overwhelm of that massive expansion you described.

We'll focus on the one thing and then let it propagate into the organization.

@22:51 - Jacki Hayes (Jacki Hayes)

That is great, great advice. Because yes, as a white woman, that perfectionism and making sure I do it right and all of that kind of

It just, it will impede the progress that I could be making. And I love that. And another thing that I feel like does a great job of helping me with that is to be in communities like Feminist Founders.

How can people become more involved with Feminist Founders? Obviously, listen to the podcast, which is amazing. So everybody, you know, you can pause this one and go listen to that one.

@23:24 - Faith Clarke (Faith Clarke)

But are there other ways that they can engage? Yeah, so Feminist Founders has an inner circle, or we saw subscribers on Substack, so definitely subscribe.

But also the paid subscribers form an inner circle that we have community with. And I think that's the place where we have a Feminist Founders framework, where we can support you in thinking through vision from your own personalized feminist point of view, and then implementation in the different areas, culture, systems, etc.

So I would say become a paid subscriber. Listen to the podcast. And then we're having an open forum conversation on invisible labor, actually, depending on when this is aired.

It may have just passed, but you can still participate. Just reach out to me where we're collecting data from all of us as business owners about invisible labor, because we know that if you have even one marginalized identity, you carry more labor and less resourcing.

So if you're women, if you're not men, that starts it. then all the intersections increases it. And one of the things that we've noticed with invisible labor is that it has debilitating effects, including health effects, mental health effects, physical health effects.

And so, so many women running businesses, trying to make it effective, and also having to struggle with health and care responsibilities.

So we're offering some support and some curated tools for that. But to design it, we're getting information from everybody.

So the link for wherever we are in that process will be in the show notes. But I'd love as many people.

Who run a business, who consider themselves feminists in some way to participate and help us think about this weight we carry and how that signals our not belonging in society and how we can shift that for ourselves together, though.

The weight we carry can't be shifted on our own. We do have to collectively shift that. But yeah, we'll send information for that in the show notes.

@25:30 - Jacki Hayes (Jacki Hayes)

Excellent. I think that is a topic that until you start to really examine all the things in your life where labor is invisible, you just don't know the extent of it.

With my ex-husband one time, he was complaining about how I don't thank him enough for the things he does around the house.

And I said, I don't recall ever getting a thank you from you. And he's like, well, but I do.

And so I said, And I just started making the list of just the house stuff. It had nothing to do with work.

It had nothing to do with anything. This was before we had a child. So it was just like the house stuff.

And it was surprising even to me once I started making that list of all the ways in which I was making the world easier for him in our home.

So when you expand that out to if you're a parent, if you're a caregiver of a family member, if you're a business owner, all of the things you just don't even know unless you start asking yourself those questions.

@26:34 - Faith Clarke (Faith Clarke)

And the thing is that you have been socialized to feel that the reason you're not managing it is because you're not organized enough.

You're not smart enough. You're not, right? If you would get it together, you would manage better. And when you start to recognize, oh, this is systemic.

Somebody else gets leisure while I work. It's, it's, it's in few. It creates a whole bunch of feelings. And just like what you did, part of this is like, let's just look at it and let's be willing to feel the feeling.

Because being blind to it has some advantages. You just work, but you don't see, like others. But when you start to see it, then you get the feelings.

But let's just be willing to look at all of it. Luisa in Canto is my model for Invisible Labor because it's just like, yeah, no, donkeys and church buildings on my shoulder.

And so many of us in our businesses, especially my nonprofit clients, yeah, they're just carrying everything.

@27:40 - Jacki Hayes (Jacki Hayes)

You talked about we need to do this together. And we started this conversation about collaboration. How would you advise folks who are listening to start reaching out to people for collaborations if they know that they want to expand and they want to be with people in their business?

@28:00 - Faith Clarke (Faith Clarke)

Yeah, this is hard because in this society, I do feel I have to acknowledge my own privilege that I am an immigrant.

And in this way, I perhaps have seen collaborations more natively done. Um, and what I've noticed here is that the hyper individualization and the hyper protectiveness and the fear associated with this one might steal that thing.

And it's, it's, it's quite intense here. I think the very first thing that whoever is interested in collaborating has to confront is their own fears around what will happen if we are together.

You know, I, I'm a, I'm a fan of communal housing. And when I talk to friends about it immediately is what would happen if, and I think so.

So the first thing is just get all of that out of your system, as in write it down and look at it.

There are strategies for every actual problem. So let's look at that. But first, just know. Know what your barriers are.

And then go into conversations knowing that the other people have barriers and fears. And they are not going to come into the conversation saying, these are my fears.

They're going to, they might, this isn't the time. My human design says I shouldn't. Like whatever it is that they say, it's behind it is the barriers and fears that are systemic.

And so I do think that starting with small projects, let's help each other with a thing. Let's, you know, we all have, we all need to make content and we all are trying to figure out how to do this.

So let's have a co-working session, but not a, not a you work. Why don't we all work on your content this week?

Let's build some trust around co-creation in very small ways. So you help me with my content next week. I help you with your content.

It's the same as let's all go over to Faith's house and clean. Next week we go over to Jackie's house and clean.

But I think those kinds of rhythms will start us getting our shoulders down around, can we trust each other enough to create with each other?

And so I would plan for small things like that. There are some people who are just ready, and if they are ready, then the best way to build trust is to create together, eyes wide open.

So Becky and I, we would name the discomfort as it came up. Like we'd be in a conversation while we're collaborating, and I would say, ooh, I'm feeling that feeling, and I feel anxious, actually.

I feel afraid that I'll do something that will upset you, and then that will cause, and we'll just talk it through.

And even if we don't talk it through on the day, then the next time, because our eyes are open to the way power moves, and to the way privilege and power creates, maintains system.

And so we acknowledge it in the process of creation. When we're not creating something. Something together is very easy for us to pretend, oh, no, we're all good, right?

So as we're creating, all our demons, all our monsters come out from under the bed, and we get a chance to look them in the eyes and say, oh, you're not so big.

I know how to navigate you and build the muscles for collaboration.

@31:16 - Jacki Hayes (Jacki Hayes)

I absolutely love that advice, and it's not advice you normally hear when somebody says, how do you get started with collaboration?

So I think it's really powerful. Faith, where can the listeners find you?

@31:27 - Faith Clarke (Faith Clarke)

Um, faithclark.com, easiest place, or socials. I am, unfortunately, in all the socials, so you can send me a message in any platform, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and I have a private substack.

So the Feminist Founders substack, you could comment on anything, and we'll respond. And I have just a Faith Shooting the Breeze substack.

It's a great place also to follow me and chat with me.