Why Empathy is Your Strongest Copywriting Strategy with Krista Walsh

What if your best marketing strategy isn’t a formula—but your ability to actually care?

In this episode of Here’s What I Learned, website strategist and messaging expert Krista Walsh joins me to challenge the “best practices” baked into online business culture. From canine reactivity to content strategy, Krista shares how empathy—not exploitation—is the key to both personal breakthroughs and sustainable marketing.

This is a must-listen for service providers who’ve ever felt icky about pain-point marketing, uncertain about their message, or trapped in someone else’s strategy.

Inside this episode:

• What reactive dogs can teach us about self-trust in business
• What “doing business your way” really means—and why it matters
• How Krista defines empathy-led messaging 
• How to write from compassion, not coercion
• Using AI without losing your message’s soul 
• What Krista would tell her earlier self about building a business

You can find Krista at:

Website: kristawalshcopywriter.com

LinkedIn: in/krista-walsh-copywriter

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Credits:

Intro and Outro Music: Atomic by Alex-Productions |https://onsound.eu/

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Creative Commons / Attribution 3.0 Unported License (CC BY 3.0)

https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/deed.en_US

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Jacki Hayes: Hey there. Welcome to Here's What I Learned. I'm Jacki Hayes, system strategist, unapologetic smutty romantasy lover, Dungeons and Dragons Geek, and your no BS guide to building a business that works for you. This is the place where we swap stories, share lessons, and get real about the highs and lows of creating a life and business that actually feels good. No cookie cutter advice here, just honest conversations about what's working, what's not, and how to rewrite the rules to fit your version of success. So grab your favorite beverage, get comfy, and let's dive in.

[00:00:47] Jacki Hayes: Welcome to another episode of Here's What I Learned Today, I have Krista Walsh talking with me, and she is a website strategist and messaging expert for service-based founders who are stepping into their next era of visibility, authority, and premium clientele. Krista, welcome to the show. 

[00:01:07] Krista Walsh: Thank you. I'm excited.

[00:01:09] Jacki Hayes: Krista, what is something that you have been learning about lately? 

[00:01:12] Krista Walsh: Yeah, so I was thinking about this question and I was trying to come up with a business thing, but what come to mind was personal. But I think I do have a business tie in, so bear with me. Dog emotions. That's what I've been learning about Jacki.

[00:01:26] Jacki Hayes: why, and what have you learned?

[00:01:29] Krista Walsh: Yes. So I have a dog. He's a big old dog. He's a pit bull. Great dane, so you can kind of imagine He's big, he's beefy, like he's, he's huge. He's a hundred pounds. I've got like 30 pounds on him. So controlling him physically like isn't. It's possible, but it's not fun for me. Right? It's not easy. And he, we rescued him as an adult, so we don't really know his background.

[00:01:53] Krista Walsh: So he's got some like reactivity issues that manifest as like aggression towards dogs and certain men that we encounter on the street. So. I have worked with dog trainers before and I felt like a lot of what was happening was them just like telling me things to do. When he does this, you do this, this, and then this.

[00:02:12] Krista Walsh: And I just realized like that's never been how I've learned anything in my life by like copying something rote like that. Like I really need the context. I need to understand like what's going on. I need to like internalize it and own it so that I can like. Just feel like it's more natural for me to like respond appropriately.

[00:02:27] Krista Walsh: So I started reading these books about dog behavior, dog emotions, particularly with dogs that have these type of issues. And it's been massively helpful just to be like, okay, here's what's going on in his brain, because it's not the same as humans, obviously, like, and here is why he might be doing this and like what he needs from you.

[00:02:44] Krista Walsh: And it's just. It's been massively helpful for me to like respond energetically and emotionally in a way that helps him feel safer without applying force. Right. If I don't need to. Yeah. So that's what I've been learning about lately and the business tie in is I had a little like aha moment when this was happening for me and I was like, wow, this is working so fucking well.

[00:03:03] Krista Walsh: Like, I'm sorry for cursing. Go right ahead. It's 

[00:03:05] Jacki Hayes: fine. 

[00:03:06] Krista Walsh: Okay. Okay. De despite having like done the dog trainer thing and it, and I think it was in business. Early on, you maybe you have a coach or consultant or something where it's just in the air. Like a lot of these like tactics based approach to business where it's sort of like, okay, here are the things to do, like do a webinar into the email sequence, into the launch, whatever.

[00:03:27] Krista Walsh: Like all of these little like steps. And I was doing all of that and like it never felt good inside and I never really sort of like I would lose faith in it very quickly. Right. Anyway, it all felt very like externally located and in recent years, I think just with age and maturity and like maturity as an entrepreneur being in this now like seven years, I've really come to a place of like, no, it's about like understanding like fundamentally like what you, your audience is like, how you're actually like making a massive difference for them.

[00:03:55] Krista Walsh: Like what your why is in your business and then making your own decisions from that standpoint. And again, it feels like an energetic, emotional. Thing less than like a tactic thing. So I've just noticed that parallel. 

[00:04:09] Jacki Hayes: Speaking of our pets. I love that you found the business tie in, but also I'm love your story of your dog because we have a pit bull, Dutch shepherd mix that's a hundred pounds and so yes, massive dog.

[00:04:22] Jacki Hayes: He's a bit timid and my partner says he's so big because he has such big emotions so that he needs the big body to contain all of them. So, but I do love like the, that idea of. Meeting them where they're at, whether it's your dogs or your clients or things like that. So what does that mean for you in relation to your business as far as doing business your way and what does that mean to you when you hear the phrase doing business your way?

[00:04:50] Krista Walsh: Yeah, I think it's something to do with what I was talking around, which is this sense of like. Having like a foundational like core confidence in what you're here to do and. I get like a lot of people talk about it like a why or something like that. I kind of have bristle that because I don't feel like I'm changing the world.

[00:05:12] Krista Walsh: But what I've really like realized is that I am changing the lives and the businesses of my clients and then in turn, as my revenue grows and like why are we pursuing revenue and wealth and all of that. And it's really like realizing that at my center I have such a generous core and I think. As I grow and become more resource like, I instinctively wanna give that out and like help other people.

[00:05:34] Krista Walsh: And so really remembering that, especially like in a world that is very, like, it feels very loaded to pursue like a, like a, not necessarily like a bigger business, but a wealthier, more profitable business. Especially today we see all these like. Insanity, billionaires doing crazy shit to the world. Yeah.

[00:05:50] Krista Walsh: And just being like, I don't see myself in that. Like, so where is my place? And just like rooting back down again, like, like an internally focused business instead of this like external noise that is happening, which I feel like I'm sensitive to a lot. So doing business my way means like. Taking steps to tune the noise out.

[00:06:06] Krista Walsh: I guess like very, being very intentional about like who I follow and who I listen to, podcasts I listen to, like this one is one, right? Because I know how much it affects me and how it can like knock me off course pretty easily. 

[00:06:19] Jacki Hayes: Yeah, I feel like all of the messaging that we are bombarded with, whether it's the emails that we subscribe to the podcast, we listen to the social media, it can make us start to second guess the choices that we're making for our own businesses, like it's working for them.

[00:06:36] Jacki Hayes: Maybe I should do it that way. But yeah, learning to tune all of that out is so incredibly important. When you reached out to me about guesting on the podcast, you mentioned as a possible topic, the idea of empathy over exploitation, 

[00:06:53] Krista Walsh: and 

[00:06:53] Jacki Hayes: I am curious what that means to you. 

[00:06:56] Krista Walsh: Yeah, I think that was coming from like, I'm messaging expert person here, so you know, there's a lot of.

[00:07:05] Krista Walsh: Best practices advice that if applied with a heavy hand does end up in exploitative territory. Even if you, like, you're not intending to do that, but you're just trying to, like I said at the beginning, like do the steps that people told you to do, and then you end up with like, like a lot of like heavy handed like pain points type of messaging where you're like.

[00:07:27] Krista Walsh: Feeling like you have to like twist the arms of people and make their pain feel really urgent and important, and that your solution is the only one for them. And because this is literally what like marketing people tell us, and I can't even think of a specific person. It is just literally like in the air, it's in the water.

[00:07:42] Krista Walsh: So I think when we think about any of that, like if you wanna follow a framework because it's helpful to you or something like. In your head, like be very intentional about, this is about empathy. This is not about exploitation. So thinking like, okay, if I am doing pain points messaging, because sometimes it's necessary, but coming at it from a lens of like, I.

[00:08:04] Krista Walsh: They're aware, they're in pain. Like I'm not like doing anything to help them like realize it more, anything like that. It's just like, I want them to know that I see them and get it right, and that is part of me being able to help you is saying that I understand where you're coming from, right? Like, I mean.

[00:08:22] Krista Walsh: I think about like a doctor or something, like somebody who like completely dismisses all of the, the pain you're in and goes straight to the solution. Like I've had that experience. It feels kind of bad, but you also don't want your doctor to sit there and be like, wow, yeah, that pain sucks and it's probably because you did all these things wrong and that's why you're like stuck in this like massive amount of pain and just like go on and on and on about it to make you feel really terrible and then try to like sell you a supplement or something.

[00:08:45] Krista Walsh: Like that's crazy, but you do want the empathy. So I think that's what I meant by just. If you want to do the tactics, like just make sure you're coming at it from like a really rooted, clear, intentional place, because I've seen it over and over again. Like really good people end up with like exploitative messaging unintentionally because they just, they just thought that's what they were supposed to do.

[00:09:09] Jacki Hayes: I love the conversations I've heard about pain point marketing. 'cause there are some folks I hear who are like, don't do any pain point marketing, don't ever talk about pain points. You're just gonna shame people. And then I've heard others who are more along the lines of, well, you have to say that you see the problems that they're dealing with and that you understand them.

[00:09:28] Jacki Hayes: Before they're going to trust that you can help them. So I, I love the idea that you can talk about pain points, but in an empathetic way of, I see you, but I'm not making you feel ashamed about the problems that you're experiencing right now. Because more than likely, most other business owners have also had that pain.

[00:09:47] Jacki Hayes: How would somebody who's maybe trying to work on their own messaging right now approach pain point marketing and. Let's say for instance, we are, are talking to one of your clients and they want to, they're a coach, a business coach. How might they step into that role of empathy without shaming their clients?

[00:10:11] Jacki Hayes: How would they know how to go about doing that? 

[00:10:15] Krista Walsh: Yeah. Hmm. I don't think there is a, here is what to do. I think it's more of like. I mean, it might be helpful to even like, throw out any of the frameworks to start with and just think of it like, okay, if, if they were like talking to you right now and expressing this pain, I think most people understand.

[00:10:41] Krista Walsh: Like rapport pretty instinctively. I mean, some of us are better at it than others, whatever, but I think a lot of us have learned how to do it where like if it's a client, if it's a friend, I mean, honestly, even if it's like a random person like you, you probably instinctively are like, oh, they're telling me like.

[00:10:59] Krista Walsh: Something is wrong. Like you're probably not just gonna be like, well great, so you should try this then, because you understand that that's gonna make them feel kind of dismissed unless they're specifically asking you for that advice off the bat. At the same time, you probably also wouldn't like take the opportunity to blame them for the pain that they're in.

[00:11:19] Krista Walsh: Like hopefully, I don't think most people listening to this are gonna be doing that. So. I think maybe before you write anything, usually we're talking about messaging, we're talking about like written messaging, but it also applies elsewhere. Just like rooting back into that like human instinct and throwing away like any of the tactics, any of the, like shoulds are supposed to do and be like, if this was actually like, I know what's going on with them.

[00:11:41] Krista Walsh: If somebody was telling me these things, what would I be writing to them? So yeah, hand like handle it with like a loose grip, with an empathetic mindset, with like a I'm gonna, I'm not gonna like. Do this in a really heavy handed way, I think. Was that helpful? I don't know. I'm trying to like give advice that isn't prescriptive.

[00:12:01] Krista Walsh: 'cause I don't think that really works. 

[00:12:02] Jacki Hayes: No, no. You can't just do something in general. But I, I could see myself being along the lines of, well, if this is me sitting at a coffee shop with my best friend and she told me she was having these problems, how would I respond? Because I feel like a lot of times people, when they start to put words on page, or whether that's webpage or emails or whatever, they start to censor or change the wording to.

[00:12:23] Jacki Hayes: Fits certain molds or professionalism or whatever it is that they have in their mind, and sometimes the words that you might say to somebody in front of you, you lose some of that warmth maybe in writing. So, or totally. Or you fall into the, because like you said, it's all in the air, so it's hard not to follow some of those frameworks that you.

[00:12:43] Jacki Hayes: I probably found out there. So how did, did you get into this, into messaging? Can I 

[00:12:48] Krista Walsh: add one more thing? Yeah. To, to that conversation. I just wanna say, because with the, with AI and the LLMs, like a lot of people, especially if you're in the stage where you're writing your own messaging a lot, like, and you don't feel like a writer, you're probably using ai.

[00:13:01] Krista Walsh: I would imagine. So I think it's extra important to have that like rooted sense of intention and like. When you're like editing that, because that's also a very easy way to slip into like feelings that you don't actually wanna create in people or like that you don't actually believe in because you think the AI is right, which it's not.

[00:13:21] Krista Walsh: So, 

[00:13:22] Jacki Hayes: no, I had to have a ginormous argument with the chat GBT today, because I kept saying I was a marketer writing stuff, and I'm like, how many times have I had to tell you I'm not a marketer? I don't know where this is. So yes, and it's, you are 

[00:13:35] Krista Walsh: right Jacki. You're not a marketer. Thank you for correcting me.

[00:13:38] Krista Walsh: Thank you. And then next line. It's like Jacki, the marketer, like 

[00:13:40] Jacki Hayes: it did it did it twice. I was like, wait, a, I just told you and I've told you repeatedly, but yeah, I have noticed when I use chat GPT, like a lot of times the first round it's getting better 'cause it's learning me. But it does wanna go to that pain point marketing that we see out there so much because it tends it.

[00:13:57] Jacki Hayes: It's learning from what's out there. And a lot of what's out there is this hustle culture, pain point, marketing, pushing the sale over writing their objections, all of that kind of stuff. And so you do, you can't just take what chat says to you right off the bat. You're going to have to look through that and see what it would feel like if you were to actually read those words yourself.

[00:14:18] Jacki Hayes: I think. 

[00:14:20] Krista Walsh: Trust yourself. I think because I, I know what it feels like to like, use an ai and it feels like this, like all knowing thing. And so like sometimes even me, like I call myself an expert. We'll be like, well, maybe I am wrong. Like maybe this crazy thing is right, but then I have to be like, I don't know.

[00:14:35] Krista Walsh: So I just wanna say it's okay to trust yourself even if you're not an expert. Like it's your business, it's your words, your message. So yeah, the AI is, is not more right than you. 

[00:14:47] Jacki Hayes: When it comes to this messaging, how did you find yourself in this role? 

[00:14:53] Krista Walsh: Yeah, it's a long and winding road that started, so I graduated university and I had been doing internships pretty much the whole time.

[00:15:03] Krista Walsh: 'cause I was very like, I'm ambitious. I'm gonna like be a corporate girl, whatever. Like, and I just. I wasn't burnt out. Like it wasn't exhaustion, it was disillusionment like already, like entering the workforce. And I actually felt a lot of like deep sadness around like the idea of career, to be honest, because I had just like, I was looking around the office jobs and like nobody really seemed enthusiastic or like purposeful.

[00:15:31] Krista Walsh: They all seemed a little bit dead inside, frankly. This has also come, that's through the lens of like, like a 22-year-old where you're like very idealistic. So I don't think I would say the same thing today, but, so I moved abroad to teach English because I was just like, well, I'm gonna do something fun.

[00:15:46] Krista Walsh: And then while I was over there, I started freelancing as an editor, a writer. 'cause that was my skillset. And it honestly grew from there. But the time I moved to the States, I was making a full-time income as a. Freelancer and then I just like continued to niche, niche niche as you do and like decide to become an expert in like things that I really cared about and saw the value in.

[00:16:04] Krista Walsh: And that's how I ended up here. 

[00:16:06] Jacki Hayes: So you're, you said that you started out as a freelancer and some of the conversations I've had with other business owners is that shift from the mindset of a freelancer to the mindset of a business owner. Mm-hmm. Um, what has that shift been like for you or have you made that shift?

[00:16:22] Jacki Hayes: What kind of things have come up for you with that? 

[00:16:26] Krista Walsh: Yeah, I've definitely made that shift. I would say maybe about five years ago. I mean, it's so hard. There's so many things that are different, but a lot of it was like the sense of taking it seriously. It wasn't just about like the next gig. So a lot of like shifting, thinking from.

[00:16:44] Krista Walsh: Months to like years and five years and things like that, and like investing in things that I believed were going to be like long-term successful because I believed in the business that I was building. It wasn't just like my personal career. It was like I'm building like a business even though it is very much like all wrapped around me at this point.

[00:17:04] Krista Walsh: But, so maybe that's the biggest thing that like shift in thinking from short term to long term and making investments that. We're deliberately long term. 

[00:17:15] Jacki Hayes: What would one of those first decisions be that you made 

[00:17:19] Krista Walsh: hiring a business coach who was probably the biggest one that you know, because you're like, okay, I'm a business.

[00:17:24] Krista Walsh: And it wasn't like a freelancer coach, it was like a person who worked with creative businesses and a lot of the people in that program were, and much bigger businesses than me. They had like teams or like massive group programs and things like that. So that, that was probably the biggest, the biggest decision.

[00:17:40] Jacki Hayes: If you were to talk to your younger self five years ago, what would you say about, like, what kind of advice would you give your younger self as they're just starting their, your business? 

[00:17:55] Krista Walsh: So my younger self when I was like starting my business? 

[00:17:57] Jacki Hayes: Yes. Yeah. 

[00:17:58] Krista Walsh: Okay. 

[00:17:59] Jacki Hayes: What would be like the number one thing you would want that person, that version of you to know 

[00:18:05] Krista Walsh: how much of an internal game it is?

[00:18:06] Krista Walsh: I think. I'm not convinced it is for everyone. I don't know. Sometimes I meet people and I'm like, God, it just seems like very easy for you to just like do the things. But for me, and I know I'm not alone in this, it is so much like when I started, I think I had quite low self-esteem, like tied to that like.

[00:18:25] Krista Walsh: Low feelings about my career, and that obviously bled into my decision making. I had some wonky beliefs about how like writing and communication was inherently not valuable due to some things that people told me. All of that. I was like carrying into like the actions that I was taking and I was like doing the things you're supposed to do.

[00:18:46] Krista Walsh: But when you're doing the things you're supposed to do with those kind of feelings, like I'm not worthy. The thing I'm doing is like stupid and dumb. Like it's just like, oh my God. Like of course, like I wasn't like getting traction and success. Right. So that's what I would tell myself. Like the internal shit matters, like whatever that means for you.

[00:19:05] Krista Walsh: Like going to therapy certainly helped me a lot, but like there are other things just like working through that in any way you can. Yeah, that's, that's what I would tell myself. 

[00:19:14] Jacki Hayes: I've had multiple conversations with business owners that basically starting your own business is one of the. Personal developments that you're going to have and like I know I have said with another business owner, having a kid and starting my business, were the two things that force the most personal growth for me.

[00:19:32] Krista Walsh: I love the The equivalency. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have children, but yeah, that's sounds right on the business end. 

[00:19:38] Jacki Hayes: Yeah, exactly. What is something you would want the to leave with the listeners? 

[00:19:46] Krista Walsh: You don't have to do the best practices. That's what I would say. I have found a lot of freedom and seen better results from my clients based on like me being like, forget all of that.

[00:20:00] Krista Walsh: Like the world I came up in, like the, here's how you write a homepage, here is what you like do with the website or whatever. And just being like, no, like tapping into like your inner knowing and like what you're seeing working and just being like able to trust yourself to to follow what you know instead of.

[00:20:19] Krista Walsh: Constantly feeling like you have to like do what you're supposed to do. I guess my hope is that people hearing that are gonna be like, well, of course, like they're gonna be so far ahead of me, but that, that's where my mind's going right now. So, yeah. 

[00:20:33] Jacki Hayes: I think a lot of people know that, quote unquote know that, but it's hard to do.

[00:20:39] Jacki Hayes: It's one of those things that you intellectually know you should like avoid doing, but in practice it's a whole lot harder to do than it sounds. So I like that you're emphasizing that for folks. Where can the listeners find you? 

[00:20:52] Krista Walsh: So, my primary platform is LinkedIn. It's just my, my name Krista Walsh, copywriter, you can find me there.

[00:20:58] Krista Walsh: I'm also on Instagram and threads less often. But yeah, 

[00:21:03] Jacki Hayes: and I will say, folks follow her on LinkedIn. She's got some great things out there, so I've enjoyed all the posts that you've put up on LinkedIn, so. 

[00:21:11] Krista Walsh: Oh, I appreciate that. Thank you. 

[00:21:13] Jacki Hayes: Well, thank you so much for being here today. 

[00:21:15] Krista Walsh: Thank you so much for having me and creating these conversations.

[00:21:23] Jacki Hayes: Thanks for hanging out with me on Here's What I Learned. If today's episode gave you an aha moment, a laugh, or something to think about, make sure you're subscribed to my email list. That's where I share even more tips, stories and behind the scenes insights to help you simplify and thrive. And remember, you get to do business and life your way.

[00:21:41] Jacki Hayes: Until next time, keep experimenting, keep simplifying, and keep learning.