The Consent-First Approach to Email Marketing with Bev Feldman

When your inbox values don’t align with your ethics... it’s time to change the rules.

In this conversation, Jacki sits down with Bev Feldman—email strategist, tech fairy, and outspoken advocate for human-first systems—to unpack what it really means to run email marketing through a lens of consent, clarity, and care.

Bev isn’t here to shame your funnel. She’s here to reframe it.

We talk about walking away from “bro marketing,” setting boundaries with confidence, and why your opt-in might be doing more harm than good. Whether you’ve been in business for years or are just getting started, this episode offers a grounded, strategic look at how to rebuild your marketing in a way that respects both your values and your audience’s autonomy.

If you’ve ever wondered whether your freebies actually matter—or felt uneasy about your list-building practices—this one’s for you.

Topics Covered:

• Bev’s personal growth and how it’s reshaped her client boundaries (03:33)
• What “consent-based” email marketing actually looks like (05:15)
• Rethinking the freebie-to-funnel pipeline—and why Bev insists on opt-outs (11:07)
• What to audit if your email list isn’t feeling good anymore (15:40)
• Practical tweaks to make your emails feel clearer and more ethical (20:08)

You can find Bev at:

Website: yourpersonaltechfairy.com

LinkedIn: in/beverlyfeldman1

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Credits:

Intro and Outro Music: Atomic by Alex-Productions |https://onsound.eu/

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Creative Commons / Attribution 3.0 Unported License (CC BY 3.0)

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Transcript

Jacki Hayes 

Hey there. Welcome to Here's What I Learned. I'm Jacki Hayes, a system strategist, unapologetic, smutty romancy, lover, Dungeons and Dragons geek, and your no-BS guide to building a business that works for you. This is the place where we swap stories, share lessons, and get real about the highs and lows of creating a life and business that actually feels good. No cookie cutter advice here, just honest conversations about what's working, what's not, and how to rewrite the rules to fit your version of success. So grab your favorite beverage, get comfy, and let's dive in. 

Jacki Hayes

Welcome to another episode of Here's What I Learned today. I have Bev Fellman, who is a Kit consultant and email marketing strategist. She is known as your personal tech fairy, and she approaches email marketing and a grounded, consent based way. It's all about human connection, but also keeping things streamlined and simplified, which you all know I love. Welcome to the podcast. Bev, thanks for having me. Jacki, so I'm going to start this out like you do every episode. What is something that you have been learning about lately? 

Bev Feldman  

Okay, so I had to give this some thoughts. It's kind of a few things, mostly personal in my personal life. So with everything going on here in the States, I've been learning on a whole other level about allyship and what it means to show up and do that work, as well as just in general, having difficult conversations and sticking up for myself. I'm not one to rock the boats on things like I'm not generally confrontational, but lately I'm like, You know what? I gotta stand up for myself.

Jacki Hayes  

I think the last few years, a lot of people are having to learn those skills because Thanksgiving dinners are very different than they once were. 

Bev Feldman  

Yeah, well, I'm very fortunate that my Thanksgiving dinners are very. It's usually people raving, ranting about the same things, so it's more like another situation. But I recognize that I'm a little bit of an anomaly in that case, and I feel very lucky to know that I'm in good company when I go home, but I definitely recognize that that's not always the case.

Jacki Hayes  

Yeah, I have lucked out as well. I do have family members that it would be an issue with, but we generally, we just don't spend time together anymore. So that has solved that problem, but it does. It does just general conversations, like things I overhear at the coffee shop, or things along those lines, with your business being consent focused. How has this work that you've been doing impacted the work that you do? 

Bev Feldman 

Oh, interesting. I feel like, in some ways, I talk a little bit about it, and one of the things that I contemplated bringing up, and that actually this ties into is within my own email figuring or my own email marketing, figuring out what I feel comfortable talking about like. I'm very open about my values. I don't hide that at all. It's very clear what they are, and just but bringing kind of a more nuanced look into emails and kind of relating it back to topics that are not immediately obvious. For example, example, I recently had an email where the topic was kind of about, it was about email automate, or email segmentation, and that concept of intersectionality, which was not something I ever would have imagined I talk about, but also recognizing not wanting to cause harm by because obviously, email segmentation is not the same as people's lived experiences and living with marginalized identities. So I was trying to tread on that very carefully, because I didn't want that it to come across as if I was equating the two. But rather, how do I take this idea and use it as like a lens for how we think about email especially in a way that's very much about what is the impact for people on the receiving end, especially for those of us who want to do quote, unquote, ethical email marketing and show up in a way that feels right for us, which there's no right or wrong answer, but I think it's very much about being more intentional and mindful about what works for us versus what we were all taught to do, or many of us were taught to do that in retrospect, we're like, maybe that's not how I want to do this.

Jacki Hayes  

I did get that email, and I read it, and it was definitely eye opening in that I've never had considered that idea before in that way. So it was really helpful. Because anytime you start grouping people, it's inclusive or inclusive, it's grouping. You've just excluded people from a group. So what kind of harm would you be doing? And you're like, Well, I'm just sending emails. But sometimes that does cause harm. It's the impact, not the intent, as they often say. 

Bev Feldman  

So yep, yep. And so it's tricky when for those of us who are trying to do right, and then maybe we over we just end up overthinking things to some degree, because we care so much about what is the impact.

Jacki Hayes  

So obviously, your values play a big role in your business, and I'm gonna guess that plays into how you do business your way. So what does it look like to you to do business your way? 

Bev Feldman  

Yeah, so I'm realizing, or especially more recently, that being firmer in what I've always been pretty clear to myself about what I wouldn't do, and I and I think I kind of, through my messaging, repel the people who are not right size or right fit, but then conversely, being really clear on like, Okay, you're gonna hire me to set up your email marketing. Then there's some things that, not only am I going to recommend, I'm going to insist on. So like, don't have a privacy policy, I'm going to insist that you have a privacy policy, not but in part, because you need one, and it's in your own best interest as a business owner. So whereas before, I was like, You should have one now. I've decided for myself, no, no, I'm going to insist this is part of us working together, because I very much care about doing right by my clients, even if it means it's a little extra work for them. But so and then being again as we talk about things like consent was before, I'd say, Well, it's kind of best practice if you're going to offer a freebie, I'd, you know, generally I'd recommend that you give people the option. I'm gonna be like, No, if we're gonna work together, you're gonna offer up a freebie. That's gonna be part of the work is giving people the option to just get that freebie and not receive your marketing emails so and I recognize that that being firmer in those boundaries might push away some people, but I think that's part of doing marketing is pulling in the people who want to who are aligned, and pushing away the people who are not and not to say that my way is the right way, but basically, everything I'm doing is with through that lens of like, what's going to be in the best interest of both you, the business owner, and create a really good experience for the people who receive emails from you? 

Jacki Hayes

Yeah, well, and when people hire you, they hire you as an expert, which means they're hiring you for your knowledge, and they're also hiring you, as you said, because they're you're the right fit. You share values, etc. So they may not have ever thought, oh, I need a privacy policy. But if you tell them, This is what you need to do, this is I insist on this. If anybody pushes back then, obviously they weren't actually a good fit for you in the first place. 

Bev Feldman 

So, yeah, yeah. But it's not like I'm just making things up here, like this is these are things we're supposed to have.

Jacki Hayes  

Yeah, yeah. So some of what you talk about kind of flies in the face of the dude, bro marketing. When you give a download, the whole point is to put them on your email list. So why would somebody say no, they have the option to opt out. Why do you insist on that when you work with your clients?

Bev Feldman 

Yeah, well, and I totally hear that concern, if I'm going to go to all this trouble of creating something, why would I then give them the option? Well, for one thing, depending on who you're marketing to, you kind of have to, so when I say this, not as a legal expert, because I'm not always consult, it's not legal advice, but from the viewpoint of, let's say, GDPR, the General Data Protection Regulation, from my understanding of how that's set up, is you have to do that, and you have to give people the option to get a thing, like a PDF, some sort of thing, in exchange of their email address. You have to give them that option. Now, if that feels like, well, I don't want to give things away in exchange, like, if I'm going to give something away for free, then I want their email address I'm going to put then say, well, then why not just make your newsletter be the thing that people sign up for, make that the end product. And obviously don't just say, sign up for my newsletter. Nobody wants to sign up for a newsletter, let's be clear, but they do want to sign up for a very well positioned one that really explains what it is you do, what sets you apart. So I guess that kind of like this weird like, what sort of answer, not answer. But I like to push a little bit when, kind of when we think about what, what are these things that we've been taught? Why do we even need to do? A freebie. How many people are actually looking at these PDF guides we put together? Quite honestly?

Jacki Hayes  

Oh, my God. I don't even know how big my folder is of freebies. Oh my gosh, yeah. Like, I'll come back to this later. Like, No, you won't. No, let's just be honest. I don't remember who it was that talked about this. I saw it posted on threads or LinkedIn. I don't remember. It's probably somebody in our sphere, but they were talking about how they don't automatically put people on their email list when they give out a freebie. They just, here you go, and then at the end of the freebie, or somewhere in the freebie, they're like, Hey, if you want to know more, here's my email to list. You can hop on it. And they said, that way I know my email list is actually warmer people than just people who went to a summit and downloaded my thing and it was never going to actually look at it, so, and it probably isn't gonna help your open rate, which obviously issues with open rate looking at that and more, but, but in general, like it just helps you narrow down so that your email lists are people who have consumed something of yours, liked it and want to continue to get more.

Jacki Hayes  

So when you started your business, was it with all of this in mind? 

Bev Feldman  

So no, no. How did you get here? Oh my gosh. It's been a wild journey. I think when I started this, I was still kind of coming off of a lot of those bro marketing techniques that I learned from my just being immersed in this online business space for a while. So honestly, when I started this, I don't even know that I had a clear position. I mean, I was clear on my values in terms of, like, in my personal life, but it's been a journey of just learning. I really attribute listening to Dr Michelle Mazur and Maggie Patterson's duped podcast like that kind of started that journey of learning and unlearning and kind of like it was one of those things where I'm like, my mind has been blown, and I've been doing everything wrong, and now I have to start over. So it's been just from following certain people, like, I think I've probably been inspired to by Tarzan Kay, who talks a lot about consents in email marketing. So I think, yeah, it's been a couple years since. I think I've only the last couple years that I've really started focusing on in this direction. 

Jacki Hayes

And if somebody has an email list that they've been doing a lot of email marketing with and they're like, oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. How do I even know? Like, what are some things that you help people start to look at first like, what are some of the first things that they should think about when they're like, oh, maybe, maybe this is more dude, Broy than I thought. Or maybe I'm not getting consent. Yeah.

Bev Feldman  

Well, it's interesting that with the kind of thinking about consent retroactively, because this actually came up. I just finished up doing a live cohort. I did this Kit for beginners course. And so I talk a lot about consent. How do we make sure we set up things so that we're asking for consent? But then people, of course, were like, well, what do I do for everyone who's already on my email list? So I kind of look at it as a few different ways. One, if you might have to make some tweaks, if you have people in the year, in the places where GDPR applies. So European Union, UK and Switzerland, and the fact that I know those three things in particular I know I just spell them out, just kind of blows my mind. But depending on your email marketing software and how you set it up, you might have to kind of actually filter out some people or change some things up. But I'm kind of of the opinion that if you really want to take it a step further, you could say, Hey, I'm switching things up. Click here. If you want to actually you consent. But I kind of look at it as, like, especially people been engaging with your emails, like, okay, maybe you don't do it retroactively, but moving forward, you make some adjustments. So that's the consent side of piece, the consent side of things, and setting it up as for what to look for with, kind of the more Broy things I can give you, actually a very clear example of what not to do. So I recently, through a summit, signed up for someone's email list, and it was someone I was familiar with, and I I was never like I hadn't been a huge fan of theirs, but I was kind of curious to see what they had pivoted and I was kind of curious to see what it is they were doing now. So I signed up for their their free thing, and I was just, I was just like, bombarded, I think, getting an email or two a day right from the get go, where they were really hard pitching a course of theirs. And there was just really no option. And to unsubscribe, it was either get all the emails, ignore all their emails, or and delete them and unsubscribe. And I ultimately went with. I deleted a bunch, and then I was like, I'm just unsubscribing. This was not a good experience. So the inverse of that would be someone's new to your list. Say you want to pitch your product. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. But then, if you're going to go that hardcore, maybe you say, Hey, here's how many emails are coming about XYZ. Don't want to get these emails. Click here. You'll stop receiving them and just go into my weekly whatever, whatever your cadence is, newsletter. So giving people agency over their inbox experience is really how I look at it. And if we can kind of look at our email marketing through that lens of, am I giving the person on the other end agency, and if you're saying no, then that's probably an instance where you should say, Well, what should I do differently so that they do have agency?

Jacki Hayes  

Yeah, I've learned a lot from your like, your emails, like I've said earlier, and it I've implemented several of them. Sometimes I feel like I'm almost overdoing it, but I'm like, Yeah, whatever. So like, you mentioned something about the opportunity to put emails on pause instead of having to unsubscribe. So I implemented, like, a 30 day if you want to get off my email list without losing it, you can pause it for 30 days, and then it has an automation that pops up in 30 days. Hey, do you still need more time than welcome sequences I never had even thought about, and I don't know if it was you who mentioned or somebody else, or probably lots of people that were like, Hey, you can let them opt out of the welcome sequence, so they can just pop right in and also don't be sending them your regular emails while they're also getting the welcome sequence. And I was like, Huh, that's actually a really good idea. I never thought about that before. So what are some of the like, the best practices that you would say people should consider if there was, like, two things that they should try and do besides put a privacy policy and an opt out on their forms, what are some things they should do in their actual emails that they're sending out? 

Bev Feldman  

Yeah, so the first thing would be just set some very clear expectations. I mean, when you're in a new place, you always want to know what like, you want to know things like, where's the bathroom and where's let's say you're going to a workshop. You want to know where it is. You want to be told when you get there, here's where you go, or, Oh, it's going to start at this time. Or, like, you want some information. So think about your email list. Is the same thing. People want to know what's happening. So I always recommend the very least, have a very simple thank you page when someone signs up your email list to first of all, make it clear that it went through. I signed up for someone's email list the other day, and I didn't even get a little I didn't get, like, a message or an email. So I messaged them. I was like, Am I on your email list? Because I have no idea if my email went through, and I really wanted to hear from them. So make it very clear that your email did go through, and then thank them, and then tell them what to go do next. Say, oh, there's an email headed to your inbox with the subject line now, mine is very simple, like, I mean, there's just, like, a thank you, and here's what to expect. And I think I've had a couple people say, Oh, this was so great. And then in that email go, not only are you reminding them again, hey, here's who I am, here's what you signed up for. Thanks again. Let them know what to again, what to expect next. We're going to get this many emails over this many days, because especially for those of us who might have some sort of automated welcome sequence, those are usually at a more frequent cadence than we might otherwise send emails, and so especially if we're sending the emails to people who are not business owners, like if you're in a more like business to consumer space, those people in particular are not going to know what's happening, or at least not to the degree of fellow business owner might so be like, really spell it out, even if it seems silly like this is what's going to happen. You're going to receive this many emails from me over this many days, and then you can expect to hear from me on what date. So like, no one wants to be surprised. Every like me kind of look at it like when I talk to my kids, like they want to know what's coming up, and I gotta just tell them this. You're going to get ready in five minutes, though, you're getting an email from me tomorrow.

Jacki Hayes  

Well, and the tech that's out there now, things like Kit make it very easy for you to implement all of these things. Yeah, and if you're not comfortable doing it, there are people like yourself who can do it for them. What does it look like when you work with a client, helping them out with their Kit back end? 

Bev Feldman  

I love this question. So, yeah. Even though I have kind of my best practices and my frameworks that I use, I very much tailor how we do things based on that business that that business owner, what it is they need, what is it they want to happen? So we talk through things like, Do you want to double opt in, or do you not want to double opt in? And I do ask that of everyone, and it's half the time to learn I don't know like so I make my recommendations of what I would do in their case, what what automated emails do they need? Like someone who runs a membership, for example, is going to have very different needs from someone who is a a professional services business owner and does more one on one client work, and so I'm not going to recommend the same things to those two folks, but it's really about understanding each business owner or business what it is they need, what they hope to get out of email marketing, making recommendations based on that, and then actually going in and doing the Setup, which is, for me, is the best part. Like, I know most people are like, what you now want to spend, like, six hours setting up the back end of Kit to be like, This is amazing. I could do this all the time. It. Couldn't do it all day, every day, but

Jacki Hayes  

It's your flow space. That's how it is for me, too. Going in and making real estate. Yeah, I'm like, oh, six hours have come by. I have an eight that was fun. Yeah?

Bev Feldman 

Oh my gosh. I remember, like, my first, like, full day setup, where it's like, oh, it's I have to go drink some water and go for a walk, like, I need to move my body because I haven't moved.

Jacki Hayes  

Yep, it takes all kinds. There's folks that need to be the visionaries who want to not do all of that kind of stuff. And then there's you and I and others like us that are like, Oh, let me get in the weeds. I can't wait.

Bev Feldman  

Yes, oh my gosh. And there's nothing like solving a good like technical problem.

Jacki Hayes  

Yes, it'll keep me up at nights if I can't figure it out, so I might as well spend some time doing it well.

Bev Feldman  21:58

It'll keep both keep me up at night. But I've also come to learn I need to go to sleep, because I will dream the answer, or

Jacki Hayes  

I'll go for a hike. Yes, yeah, one or the other, Yep, yeah. That has become a big lesson for me. Owning a business is how important it is for me to step away from my business to actually have a better business. 

Bev Feldman 

Yes, oh my gosh, you're reminding me how long it's been since I've gone for a walk in the woods, and I'm really overdue for one.

Jacki Hayes  

Well, it's been a long time, because it's been winter and so, yeah, it's, it's light out. I'm like, Let's go for a walk every day now. Yeah, what are, let's say, three lessons that you have learned in your time as a business owner. We've talked a little bit about some of the growth and changes you've made. But what are three lessons you've learned that you would want to share with yourself on day one of my business? 

Bev Feldman  

Three lessons. I thought we would go with one.

Jacki Hayes  

They can be minor. They don't have a huge.

Bev Feldman  

Okay. Well, lesson number one, don't waste my time on reels. And I was doing reels back in the day when there was, like, everyone was taking, okay, what's the trending sound? And now I have to, like, move, move my mouth to it, like, at least it's shifted. And I don't, I haven't done a reel in a couple years, but I appreciate that it's at least shifted where people are doing, like, the videos of them, like just doing things and then talking over it, I'm like, that would have made my life way easier, rather than trying to, like, tie my my lips to the beat, which never worked. Oh my gosh. So that was a time suck. I would say another lesson learned. Oh my gosh, it's it's wild, because I had been doing email marketing for so many years. Like, I had a jewelry business for many years. But just to see how much my writing has evolved since I first started this, and I feel like going back and just telling myself, like, just write. Like, don't try to follow someone else's email framework. Just do what works for you. Like, I remember just getting so stuck be like, Okay, well here this is this email I'm supposed to write about this topic today. Versus, like, today I just banged out today's newsletter. I think I'm like, I really knew what the topic was going to be, but, like, it was, like a 30 it took me 30 minutes, and it was just, it felt so conversational and fun. Like, oh, like, just listen, just do what you know you should be doing. Bev, don't try to anyway. Oh my gosh. What's another lesson? I don't even know if this is a lesson per se, but I remember at the beginning trying to figure out, like, knowing that I wanted to bring in my values, but not really being clear how to do that. And I think it was just one of those things that I just had to learn from doing, quite honestly, yeah. Oh, and the other one was just trying to create an opt in. I wish I just stuck with the well positioned newsletter. The I guess that was four. You got a bonus one. 

Jacki Hayes  

There we go. Excellent. The first one I loved, for sure. I loved all of them. But I'm like, I was right there with you with, like, glitching reels while he was glitching as you're trying to edit and keep your mouth. And I'm like, This is not for me. Yeah?

Bev Feldman 

Like, I don't, I don't know what I was I mean, I guess that it was like, Okay, this is what we're supposed to be doing.

Jacki Hayes  

I think anytime we hear should and supposed to, we should just automatically stop and be like, Wait a minute. Wait, yeah,

Bev Feldman  

angle wilding is the only reason I was even on Instagram in the first place. Well, one because I had a local business owner friend who's an accountant, and she found clients through that. Like, people found her. I was like, what? And then two people did find me through through Instagram, but it was only because they were, like, looking for someone who, at the time, when it was called ConvertKit, like they looked up for ConvertKit, and I don't think my reels or my posts or what, what compelled them to reach out to me is probably like, oh, this person knows, Kit, go, reach out to them.

Jacki Hayes  

Oh, my goodness, Bev, where can the audience find you? Yeah,

Bev Feldman  

Well, speaking of a well positioned newsletter, best way to reach me is, or find me is, I would encourage you to come to my newsletter, which is you can find at your personal tech fair. Excuse me, your personal tech fairy.com. Forward slash newsletter. I don't promise that I'm I'm not a messaging expert, but I have worked really hard on positioning this newsletter so and, and I think my newsletters are pretty fun even it's a newsletter about newsletters and email so, and

Jacki Hayes  

As I've said multiple times, I've learned a lot from them, so I highly encourage everyone to subscribe who does email marketing. 

Bev Feldman  

So, yeah, so, and I promise you, if you reply to an email, I will reply back. So that's that's one of my favorite parts

Jacki Hayes  

Definitely. Bev, thanks so much for being here with us today. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. 

Jacki Hayes  27:05

Thanks for hanging out with me on Here's What I Learned. If today's episode gave you an aha moment, a laugh or something to think about, make sure you're subscribed to my email list. That's where I share even more tips, stories and behind the scenes insights to help you simplify and thrive and remember you get to do business and life your way until next time, keep experimenting, keep simplifying and keep learning. You.